The Rise and FALL of the DI Forum.........

[HeteroVox]

Tru3

Apologies for taking a while to answer, busy day Tuesday. I'll have some spare time later this evening For now, back to the mill.

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Cum Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc

[HeteroVox]

Stepping stones Tru... Just like the crabs really, it's hard to climb out of the bucket when the crab you want to use for a ladder is using you for one.

Quote:

please elaborate on the nuero linguistic theme. this is getting interesting. i can't claim to know much about the topic. i'm unclear when you say "subject or subjects". that could be interpreted a couple of ways, couldn't it? are you saying that the change factors are being manipulated with conscious intent by someone, as in using or being used by nlp , or that these change factors occur as part of the system's dynamics? or am i consfusing nlp with another phenomenon entirely?

If you start off with NLP as a collection of techniques aimed at modelling a desired internal topography, behavior, etc; then, the perception that the techmiques DON'T create the mechanisms which render them effective becomes obvious. Such mechanisms have evolved over millenia. With NLP, the process is consciously enacted by the user, consciously triggering the mechanisms in accordance with the users agenda. It's possible that NLP can be used accordingly and I'm sad to say that it IS out in the wild (as you probably know already) and that there are some VERY nasty people around using it indiscriminately, and extremely irresponsibly, purely for their own benefit.

I hesitate to discuss specifics concerning NLP on an open forum, it really is dangerous to play with it.

Beyond that, the mechanisms are triggered for benign purposes by 3rd realm activities (interaction, communication, environment, etc). They are the mechanisms which facilitate things like our ability to conceptualise and our ability to process and extrapolate emotion into physical reaction. You will probalby have a wealth of info about the use of symbols in Human consciousness and more than likely understand that we are using symbology at this moment to communicate with each other.

As an example, I read an article by a prominent figure of the US Intelligent Design lobby. He was discussing the book by Dawkins 'The Selfish Gene'. In essence he was criticising the book by countereing that a selfish gene could NOT inform the formation of mind/consciousness in aspects of interaction concerning empathy, love, charity, etc.

Aside from anything else, and for the purposes of this subject, he was misleading his readership either consciously or unconsciously because he was using the generic understanding of the word 'selfish' and it's attendant symbology.

The very first chapter of the book defines the scope of the proposition contained in it, what that proposition IS and what it ISN'T. That definition rendered the critique obsolete before it was made.

Having read the book one could see that either the ID guy had read it and was purposefully misrepresenting it OR he hadn't read it and had used PRECISELY the same generic symbol for 'selfish' that he was passing on to his readership. All this form a book TITLE.

Take 'infinite love' the name evokes a symbol in the mind which in turns describes a concept. I'm fairly certain there isn't anyone on this board who would equate the generic symolism of the those words to the breadth of the concept they have been used to describe.

If I decided that the term 'infinite entropy' evoked the concept more effectively in MY mind... You might correctly discern that such a title isn't a flyer when it comes to attracting people to dig the concept.

Our internal narrative is triggered by the symbols that we come across in our environment, even down to basic items (how often do you consciously list the things you know about a 'tree' when you see one?), and those symbols are stacked back into the subconscious. The narrative being held at a level most appropriate for it's priority and attached to a symbol at that level.

Certain phenotypes seem to have an innate talent for understanding the importance of relating directly to the generic symbol and develop a high level of natural proficiency without understanding HOW that process works

It is almost impossible to PROVE that an individual will, say, use the word 'home' instead of 'house' in a CONSCIOUS effort to engender a feeling of nuture, warmth and security in the listener, but the principle is that simple.

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Cum Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc

[tru3]

Quote:

Stepping stones Tru... Just like the crabs really, it's hard to climb out of the bucket when the crab you want to use for a ladder is using you for one.

lol! great line. mind if i use it?

said another way: one person's truth is another person's crab bucket. we're all competing for energy, some more unconsciously than others.

i have recently lost someone very dear to me, so please forgive me for a slow response. i have much to do right now.

i will read your post more in depth and have time tomorrow to respond, most likely.

i understand about feeling reluctant to discuss certain topics in an open forum. things get taken out of context, conclusions are jumped to.

i am very interested in learning more about this topic, not to learn how to "use" it, simply to become more aware of its pernicious influence.

in fact, heterovox, would you please re-post this to a new thread? it's slightly off topic, but only slightly, imv.

thanks for sharing your insights.

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"at least i have chicken" -- leroy jenkins

[james777]

HeteroVox wrote:

Quote: i understand your concern about david's health, etc., but david icke has never asked for quarter, nor given any, with respect to his work. and i'm a little confused about the "rudderless" reference. a rudder would imply some kind of vessel, ergo some kind of destination/agenda. forgive me, but i don't ever recall david icke saying "i'm your captain!" Apologies Tru3, reading back on my post I can see why that might have confused you. I'm not sure if you would agree with my take on this but here goes (bites bullet, spits out broken tooth ...) The phenotype that David Icke exhibits has been pretty much comprehensively defined (see JF schumacker, Stevens & Price, et al. I'll try and track down some links if you're interested). You may find this controversial but within the dispersal phenotype the assumption of leadership never needs to be stated verbally. There are various non-verbal strategies, ( both conscious and subconscious ) by which an individual can assume and project leadership. David's search for an alternative paradigm to the one he first selected can be construed as a possible cause for great concern (strange attractor resynthesis). We can equate this in terms of growth but not everyone 'grows' into a paradigm that is beneficial to the organism. David Icke has already been subject to a vector, which caused him to leave the 'natal group' originally so, we might be forgiven in the conclusion that he could be predisposed to dispersal. It might be hard to take on board without some grounding in evolutionary psychology but what is being experienced by the DI forum has been documented in similar situations surrounding 'charismatic' leaders. When I used the term rudderless I was referring to the fractionation which occurs when a subject or subjects who have experienced Neuro Linguistic change factors are deprived of the source of those factors. Ok, I know that all sounds a bit, erm, rationalist and technical, I suppose there aren't really many alternatives to that type of explanation. In a wild and desperate attempt to salvage some street cred, I've actively practised a maverick version of Kundalini and Tantra for over ten years so I'm not entirely ignorant of the spiritual issues either. I'm also involved in helping the 'recovery' process for people who have found themselves in something a pickle. PS: I'm not registered at the DI forum at all, mooched around there a few times. Stopped short at just reading DI's books. PPS: Thanks for the welcome Tru3, I'd be happy to stick around if y'all can put up with me.

Fascinating stuff here..........so basically the individual can be broken down to a simple science. All this time I thought we were all complicated individual beings.....

[james777]

Jonathan White.....paging, Jonathan White.......I know you must be busy with your new responsibilities and all, But I'd like a response from you to the below paragraphs, when you get time that is...........

james777 wrote:

John White, thanks for the response.........let's just get this straight and clear the air so there is no confusion on my part in the future regarding you or the DI Forum. Are you in fact saying that my behavior is one of unacceptable measure? Behavior as I read it in the dictionary is; the way in which a person acts in response to a particular situation or stimulus. By definition, in this case, 'person' is me and I am who I am and that is represented in my behavior. Are you actually saying that I need to modify my behavior to the predilection of someone else, just so I am accepted? If this is what you are saying, this is perplexing to me. Isn't the whole point of self discovery and 'dreamworld exposition' in fact being yourself and not trying to fit in with others and act like them because they are not willing to accept your behavior? I thought David Icke himself tells us to investigate everything and be 'individuals' in our conquest. I don't see what my posts here, on a completely unaffiliated forum, have anything to do with me posting on the DIF. I for one have never displayed blatent race hatred, sexual deviancy or overt insult, ridicule or smear against Icke or other members. Sure I've had dis-agreements with others and have had heated exchanges, but never once have I displayed these attributes. I'm only as guilty as others I've conversed with, why was I 'punished' and the eyes looked the other way about others? Is that what the admin. there considers 'fair'? I didn't even get the respect of a reason for being banned. I simply logged in and was notified of a banning with : no reason specified : of course I have nothing positive to say at this point. I couldn't even get a response out of one individual there after I sent numerous e-mails questioning why I was banned. That's why I'm pretty much like 'FUCK THEM' right now. They show me shit I respond with shit, even you should be able to understand that. I do have my own opinions and I'm not afraid to speak my feelings, I will not act like I'm someone else just to be 'accepted' by others. If that's what it's truly come to over there at the DIF, then I honestly want no parts of it ever again. A place that has 'prerequisites' like that is no different than any other place in this so-called 'dream world'. You need to explain to me how I was 'drama-queening'. I simply opened up discussions and they led where they led. Do you expect me to be a silent member and not speak my mind and allow others to engage in debate? Isn't that the essence of a forum? If you saw me as a 'drama queen', then you've fallen into the same trap that I've seen you, on many occasions, tell others to avoid. If the admin. acted so justly in 'my case', then why are they in absolute refusal mode to even give me one response or reason and if the answer to that is 'because they don't have to', that just goes to show how out of touch with the reality of it all they really are. Lastly, I'm curious to know if your judgement of me is 'one of a bad heart'. Every post I made was with a good heart, openness and truthfulness. If I am not accepted because of 'WHO I AM' that's fine with me, but at least have the balls or the decency to say it, instead of just banning me, sweeping the whole situation under the rug. I know it's not just me either, it appears as if there are plenty under the rug with me. If I'm expected to be 'part of the herd' and only talk about certain topics and only talk with certain 'tones', then maybe the DIF just isn't a place for me. Sorry, I'm just not part of the 'sheople movement' and never will be.

[HeteroVox]

My sincere condolences for your loss Tru3.

OK, I'll copy that last post to a new thread if you are interested enough in the subject for it to warrant it's very own thread.

James777 wrote:-

Quote:

Fascinating stuff here..........so basically the individual can be broken down to a simple science. All this time I thought we were all complicated individual beings.....

Perhaps a product of confusing complicated for complex and also of mistaking the map for the mountain, then James

~Het~

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Cum Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc

[james777]

John White wrote:

James The question is not one of opinion, but one of behaviour: and your posts on this thread are not doing a great job showing me you are ready to revise your behaviour at this time There are very few opinions that I would consider incompatible with posting on the Icke forum: blatent race hatred/sexual deviancy (children/animals/dead people) and overt insult/ridicule/smears against icke or other members: thats about it However, the behaviour of "drama queening" (which seems like a fair description of your behaviour whilst on the forum to me) is right out, and you were given multiple chances that you failed to avail yourself of I wouldnt rule out the possibility of any banned poster returning to the forum, but it certainly wont happen unless it could be shown that the forum admin acted inadvertently in error, otherwise, defiantely not at the current time, and I see little grounds to consider admin acted inapproriately in your case (other matters still ongoing) There is a lot of work to do on the Icke forum and I am optomistic that it will quickly improve and be a far better space for expression and holding of a good quality Vibe in '08 I encourage all those of good heart who hold a current membership there to actively post and help make it the forum you wish it to be

This is what really annoys me about JONATHAN WHITE......he spouts all this speculative shit with no facts to back anything up, then refuses to respond after repeated attempts of inquiry. No wonder no one can get a response from the admin. at the DIF.........these guys refuse.....

[John Drake]

Its the administration no doubt about it.

Ask a simple question like what will happen to the money in the defence fund if icke wins the case and they lock the thread and threaten to ban you. Question everything Icke says the team over there obviously think differently.

Then theres the in crowed they say and do as they like but if others do it its a ban.

Fuck em the place is coughing up blood and making Whit a forum advisor should just about finish it off.

[Accuracy]

I voted the Admin, as i truly believe that David Icke has no control over them ( obviously the forum has swelled in numbers) with an influx of paid CIA disinfo agents, aka the TROLLS.

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[Accuracy]

And, yea, i stopped posting at DI's forum over a week ago.

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